Kevin: [00:00:11] Hello, and welcome to the over 50 health and wellness podcast. I'm your host, Kevin English. And I'm so honored that you're here. We have a fantastic episode for you today. But before we start, I want to let you know that this episode is brought to you by the silver edge.

The silver edge is my personal training and nutrition counseling business. That helps you get into the best shape of your life. How would your life be different? If you were stronger, leaner, more athletic. If you moved better, had less aches and pains and were more confident. If you've tried dieting in the past or exercise programs, but just didn't get the longterm results you were hoping for.

Hit me up. I'd love to start a conversation. You can email me@kevinatsilver-edge.com. That's Kevin at silver hyphen edge. Dot com and we'll set up a 30 minute zoom call to see if it makes sense to work together. Okay, enough shameless, self promotion. Let's get on with today's show.   Ladies. Please indulge me for a moment. I need a quick word with the men. Guys. This podcast applies to you. I know that there's some of you out there that are going to listen for a few minutes and think healthy skincare and beauty products. What do I care about that? And I get it, but bear with me, this episode applies 100% to you.

It turns out that healthy skincare is critical to whole body health. And the products that you choose, soaps, shampoos, underarm, deodorant, shaving creams, et cetera. Can have a positive. Or negative effect on your health? Okay. So with that public service announcement out of the way. Today, we're going to talk about the intersection of health and beauty.

We'll talk about things like healthy skin biomes and why you should care. We'll challenge much of the conventional wisdom surrounding how we clean ourselves. And we'll call into question many of the commercial products that we use to scrub clean shampoo and powder ourselves. And how these products can adversely affect our immune systems and overall wellbeing.

My guest today is Nadine Artemis. Nadine is the author of holistic dental care. A complete guide to healthy teeth and gums as well as Renegade, beauty reveal and revive your natural radiance. She is also the creator of living libations. Align of botanical health and beauty creations that are among the purest on the planet.

Nadine inspires people to rethink conventional notions of beauty and wellness.  And I asked her how she got interested in beauty and health.

Nadine: [00:02:55] Well, I was kind of a classic teen just into the normal beauty things. As many young women are taught to primp and preen, so they can be legitimate women, but I really loved it. Like I would even mix, , perfumes and different things in my bathrooms.

But it was really when I was 18 and I was at university and I really started to understand the whole food system. And that was very eye-opening for me.  Really understanding where food came from, how it was produced, the chemicals, the ingredients, the environmental toxicities, the effects on the body.

And it really understood like how to read labels and understand what was processed and really which led to me not eating processed food again. But within a few weeks of really immersing myself in that, I just sort of looked at my, , bathroom products at the moment.

I was like, it's the same story. And the products that I thought were like, kind of environmental back then, it was just total BS. It was just a petroleum promise land with fancier names like pineapple face wash or cucumber face toner  , but I was really excited cause it kind of gave me an excuse. To make my own stuff.

I had started making my own food  all of a sudden food really opened up for me. So it was like a narrowing, but then a whole world opening up where I'm like, oh my God, I can make like milk out of cashews. I can make sourdough bread. I can, you know, oh my God, there's a whole world of like ,  beans that I'd never heard of, for example, or like seaweeds, like hijiki and all this, all that fun stuff.

But then even when I, as I was dabbling as a teenager, and even in grade nine, I had done a science fair project on perfumery. Really went into the history of it. And in, in a book that I was reading in the library on the history of perfume, it talked about the distillates and that these are essential oils and that they could be found in a health food store today.

So, , my mom took me to the big city and we went to the health food store. Cause I recreated a layer Dettol for my project science fair project in grade nine, which was me working with essential oils to make a perfume. I really just didn't know at that time that I would become, , a natural perfumer.

so then back at university, I'm making my own food and I'm whipping up my own cosmetics and that was just so super exciting for me. So,  while I was doing schoolwork, I was also researching raw materials and ingredients and the history of cosmetic preparations and then writing consulates and different.

Countries to find out their distillers. Cause this was pre-internet because there was so many ingredients that I was reading about books that I could not find. And I had to find, and I had to catch a whiff of what that was like in ancient Egypt. Or why were they putting these things together? Or, , what happens when you add frankincense to honey and all these great things?

So that was that. I knew what I wanted to do while I was in university. And then within six months of graduating, I had this full concept for a store and it was north America's first full concept aroma therapy store, which I started in Toronto on queen street.

And  it was gorgeous. We had a blending bar with over a hundred essential oils, custom blend perfumes. You could buy essential oils by the drop and it had all my formulas that I'd been making. While I was going through university, like things like waitress, legs and rose face serums and   eye creams and shampoos and fun things like that.

Kevin: [00:06:14] that's a great story. So you, got to this through food and the realization that processed food is just got a bunch of crap in it, right. And then all of a sudden you're in your bathroom and you're looking at some of your,  beauty products and you're saying, well, Hey, I don't recognize any of these ingredients, which may or may not be.

Healthy or unhealthy, right. Just because we don't recognize them, but as you start researching them and you're like, well, wait a minute, this, this doesn't look so good.  So you got into making your own essential oils, your own beauty products at a, very early age.

Sounds like you knew exactly what you wanted to do. But before we go any further here and talk about what's in commercial. Products and why that's not good for us.

What is an essential oil?

Nadine: [00:06:58] Yeah, so, I mean, I'm generally working with botanicals for all of our  Skincare formulations, you know, sometimes there'll be some minerals, that kind of thing. But so within that palette of this beauty in this Babbie of botanical ingredients that the earth makes are, , , various extracts from, you know, we can work with tinctures and cold pressed oils and , different extracts, like a super critical extract.

But within that realm are things which are distillate, which are the distillation of essential oils. Now not every plant can be distilled to have an essential oil because that plant needs to contain aromatic molecules, which can then be released from the plant matter, through the process of distillation.

And through that, you get a very, very concentrated plant matter. And the essential oil is like, It's like hidden in the sacks and the glands of the plant. And so that gets expressed and, , it's so concentrated. It's like one drop of rose, a steam distill the rose auto contains 60 rose heads in one drop.

And that one drop has over  500. Natural chemical constitutes that do like things that we don't even know. And that's why it's important to use things in their whole form. Like when you can. So modern medicine would distill not medicine, but whatever modern Pharmacopia. Or a modern ingredient making they take, they see peppermint and then they just want that very, very active ingredient.

so out of the 500, there's obviously one that could be, you know, 50% and the respirologist micro, but it's menthol. And so then they just want the menthol, but it's good to have all those micro things. Cause then you're getting the whole expression in this concentrated form. So, and the, also the word oil is a little bit misleading because they're not oily like olive oil.

Essential oils are actually volatile and evaporative. So if you have your pure lavender oil and you left the lid off, that will evaporate into the room over the course of a few weeks or that kind of thing. So it's a different quality of oil, but they're also very, , compatible with our body systems.

They D the molecules, even if you can't smell, they work physiologically on the body. They are great, , to apply. Transdermally. Where they can do their work in the bloodstream and then they leave. So it's not like a toxic ingredient. That's been just hanging around for a couple of decades. So, , they're great because they're these active ingredients.

They're also antibacterial antifungal antiviral. So they're really,  wonderful for skincare and cosmetic, but , there's like a whole medical realm that you could kind of get into with the use of essential oils as well. Again, to help minor things, , like healing, a cut, a scrape, a burn, a burn  you know, helping oral bacteria come into balance  maybe helping a strep throat, that kind of thing.

Kevin: [00:09:54] There's a lot of, information there and I think people might be surprised to hear that it takes think you said 60 robes heads to make a single drop Rosa.

Nadine: [00:10:01] Yes. Now that's why rose auto essential oil is so expensive now. Of course, there's why it's so expensive.

There's a lot of plants that have a big yield. So eucalyptus, peppermint, lavender, they're all very juicy. And so.

Kevin: [00:10:13] Right. Yeah. Okay. Well that can help us understand why when we go to say a health food store and you see that rack, and some of them are $60 in some of them are $6 and that might be why you would never

Nadine: [00:10:26] want to buy essential oils.

If they were all the same price.

Kevin: [00:10:29] That's a good point. And do you want to

Nadine: [00:10:30] see Latin names? You want to see some Latin names when they're a country of origin and then just really starts smelling so you can see the difference. Cause there's a lot of ways to fold for fractionated and adulterate, , essential oils and they become fragrance oils in nature, identicals, and there's a lot.

A lot of very savvy techniques there that are used for the food flavor and cosmetic industry. So there is, , a lot of what we see out in the market of essential oils. Isn't that genuine, authentic distillation that you want because it's when you got the authentic distillations, that's when you actually will get the properties of what the books are saying, you know, frankincense doing X, Y, and Z.

You need real frankincense to do that.

Kevin: [00:11:13] Okay. And that was actually going to be my next question, right? Is there a difference between, cause sometimes I'll see a product and it will be a relatively low price and I'll see that same product and it'll be quintuple the price. And I think you just explained why there's different processes in distilling essential oils.

It sounds like probably different quality controls, et cetera. And you're looking for that. Purest distillation, right?

Nadine: [00:11:39] Yes.  Luckily , while I was in university, I had found a lot of my distillers that I work with now, and we've just been working together for over 20 years, which is so amazing.

But I just wanted to say too, like, you can have not genuine essential oils and they can also be high priced.  You know, so there's all kinds of justice where really, you really will know though by smelling. And if you start smelling just all the qualities, you will really be able to discern. And that's a good thing to do.

We also do third-party testing and we put those lab reports up on our website as well. So those are all the things to really, you know, that we do just to back up. And I'm only interested in using the best because it's going on my body as well.

Kevin: [00:12:21] So , let's talk about skin. , I've, I think it's maybe even one of the chapters in your book might be the name of a chapter, but I saw where you had written that our skin is the moist envelope of our soul.

And I've heard you speak about a healthy skin biome. And it was, it was very eyeopening to me. I certainly had been exposed to a healthy gut biome and why that's important, but nobody had ever said anything about  A skin biome that I'd never heard. And you talk about what that is and why that's preferable to say an unhealthy skin biome.

Can you talk a little bit about our skin?

Nadine: [00:12:55] Well, it's amazing cause  the study of the microbiome is about sort of 20 years old and it's great. Cause we're really starting to understand that, especially through gut health, but really the whole body's a biome. And then the major microbiome areas are the guts.

Which are obviously connected to the oral microbiome. There's like ear nose, throat biome.  There's a vaginal microbiome for women, which is very key. And of course the whole skin microbiome, and then you're going to have different regions. So like the armpit is going to be a lot more micro bio me, so to speak then the sole of your foot.

And there's a lot of activity on your face. So,  the microbiome is sort of new in our understanding. The microbiome is,  the like term for the billions of bacteria that are essential to our health and for systems like the endocrine system, digestive systems, innate immune system, that the microbiome is key and sort of prior to these 20 years of understanding the microbiome and we were just all very focused on cellular.

Health, which is also totally important, but it's good for us to know that our skin is, is, , teaming with cells and also billions of bacteria. So we're really just a tapestry teaming with bacteria and then sort of what we've gotten incorrect about modern skincare. Which of course is laced with marketing and chemicals and sort of beyond that is that we didn't understand the microbiome.

So now maybe in the nineties, early two thousands, we knew about the endocrine disruptors that we were applying to our body through. In the name of beauty and through cosmetics. But now we understand that many of the ingredients of modern skincare are actually mutating our microbiome. And so that's kind of, , mutating the effect of our innate immune system, because our skin is our largest organ and it's a key player in our innate immune system.

And what we apply to the body goes in and. It. So it can be our greatest, it can be like what we're putting on our body can, could be like kryptonite because, or it can be a really good thing because we do have the ability to absorb. So let's use it for good, you know, like. Let's transdermally apply vitamin D or iodine or thing, or all essential oils.

Have the it's like they're all high in monoterpenes and monoterpenes are healthy for the mitochondria. So now not only do we not have like non-toxic six skincare, we've got beautiful. And beautifying options that are working with the mitochondria, working with the bacteria, working with the cells. And that just makes a lot more sense to me to be working with the body.

We step out of the way and allow the body systems to do its stuff. Allow the bacteria to be the beautician.

Kevin: [00:16:07] That's beautifully spoken. Most of us grew up in an era where we took our skincare products for granted. For me personally, that meant products like dial or Irish spring soap. Shampoo right. Guard, underarm, deodorant, and some sort of foaming goo for shaving cream.

And of course you ladies, most likely add onto this list. Things like conditioners and detanglers and lotions, makeup, perfume, et cetera.  And now today we're living in a world where antibacterial hygiene is important and we've waged a war on bacteria.

After all, we need to wipe out these bad germs, right? But when we put these commercial products on our body, we are damaging, not just our skin. But we're damaging our immune systems. But what if there was a way to feed and nourish our skin? To work with our body's natural biomes.

 

Nadine: [00:16:59] Yeah, we're feeding our skin and it's compatible with our skin and it's compatible.

Like the molecules are compatible. Another really interesting thing, which I studied through oral care is seeing w like we see now we're getting answers like modern science is bringing answers to some of the reasons why we've been using some botanicals for thousands of years, for oral care and skincare.

So through scientific research, we can see that essential oils. Have this, , thing called QSI, which is quorum, they're able to quorum sensing in inhibit. So they're able to inhibit the quorum sensing of pathogens. And that really just means that they're able to inhibit the activity of pathogens, gaining traction and the quorum sensing being their gene expression and their ability to kind of group up.

So normally in a healthy biome, you know, you're always going to have pathogen in your body. Right. There's always going to be that. but you don't want them to overtake it. So I kind of think it's not scientific, it's scientific, but I think of like the 80 20  rule, sort of in our bodies where we think of like, , 80% of really great beneficial bacteria, and then they're managing that 20%.

But if those pathogens start to. Quorum sense. They gain traction,  they're able to do their gene expression and they're starting to build biofilms. So what we know now through understanding essential oils and it's all to varying degrees, like I think close at about 71%. So it's going to vary, but things like rose, frankincense tea, tree  clove cardamom,  cinnamon, all these really great oral care botanicals.

We now know that they're able to. Inhibit the quorum sensing clean up the pathogens while working collaboratively with the beneficial bacteria. They're able to bust through the biofilm, but not imbalanced the beneficial bacteria, which is really, I mean, that's what we need right now. That's. What we need and that, that can be part of our oral care and our skincare and that we're not going to have, , a buildup of like aluminum or parabens in our body over a few decades.

That's really exciting.

Kevin: [00:19:13] That is very exciting and it has a lot of implications for our long-term health. And we're recording this in may of 2021. So we're hopefully at the end of this crazy  pandemic time when a lot of people are looking at health, right. We now know that. The you're at the greatest risk for this particular COVID-19 strain.

If you're unhealthy, if you have a compromised immune system, so things that we can do to long-term to be healthier. , I think certainly we need to put more emphasis on that. Now we've talked about. Why some of these natural products are healthy and good for us. Talk a little bit about the flip side.

When I look through, , you know, just in a department store, especially when you go to the lady section with the makeup and the shampoos and conditioners and the detanglers and the leave-in shampoos and the. on and on and on, right.  All the different perfumes. What happens to our skin when we use these products daily excessively?

Nadine: [00:20:14] Well, part of it too is like a lot, like a lot of the products are also causing issues and then you're looking for more solutions. So it's a bit of a catch 22 because nothing's really being solved at the root level. What we also know now through studying the microbiome is that. This stuff, doesn't leave the body.

So they've done special photography where  people do their normal routine. Then seven days later, like, and not shower For that period of time and you can see the buildup, it's just still there sitting on the scalp, on the skin, on the face. So there's that. And then what we're seeing at a more microscopic level is that, , surfactants.

So whether that's your quote unquote mild face cleanser from the health food store or your dial soap, is that, , when, , the stratum corneum, which is the top layer of the skin, when that's looked at under a microscope, we're seeing that. There's these microscopic splinters of surfactants that stay on the skin and build, they're not rinse when you wash your face and they just microscopically build up over time, which can lead to like uneven skin tone.

Melasma exzema just dry, scaly patches. And that's just like a micro detail of something that you might be chasing your tail about on your skin.

Kevin: [00:21:32] Yeah. And I think. , , any of us who have used a lot of chapstick may be experiencing kind of what you're talking about. You use your chapstick and, , basically as soon as you use it, you're, you're in a, you're in a cycle.

Right. Cause then you need it. It's somehow it gives you some relief immediately, but seems to dry you out even more than you were

Nadine: [00:21:51] so classic. Like that was just like, I feel like even like  , I've studied the studies that have studied the K Y jelly, which is glycerin, which seems like.

I guess out a commercial lube, that seems kind of innocuous. It doesn't smell.  It's clear, but that's like glycerin. And what that creates on a set on the cell level is this thing called osmolarity. So you get, you get in the moment, , hydration, plumpness, but then the cell releases its water. And then when they look at the, the vaginal cells under the microscope from user K Y jelly, they're shriveled up like raisins.

They're sloughing off easier and making more of an environment for an STD. So, you know, it's, it could be that or the chapstick and it's like these cycles. And I think, I mean, for over 20 years, I have people use my lip balm and they're just like, oh my God. It's like done. And, and, and their little lip on may, last them a year because lips are healed.

Kevin: [00:22:52] Yeah, lips are healed and healthy. And I suppose if you're just using your drug store department store, chap, stick lipstick

Nadine: [00:23:01] or whatever, she usually petroleum based. So it's actually drawing out. It's kind of like the, with triclosan in hand soap or hand, I think it was in the hand sanitizing gel, which is a, you know, it's,  a toxin.

And, , it's in toothpaste too, but they've removed it from hand soap because it actually messes with the microbiome and then makes the bacteria on your skin more susceptible to superbugs because it's kind of like acting like an antibiotic on the skin, which antibiotics have their place in time. But.

For the past 40 years, scientists say we're literally at our now antibiotic resistance stage and so antibiotics are no longer effective. And the issue is there have been, , in our food supply and the water and  antibiotics are a little bit more of these sort of indiscriminate assassins kind of wiping out whole areas.

And then you've wiped out the microbiome, which is really part of your immune system.

Kevin: [00:24:00] Yeah, I, that, that is a

Nadine: [00:24:02] problem. Right. Then I guess, bringing it back to us right now, yet we want to be clean obviously, and we want to, you know, wash your hands and that kind of stuff, soap, you know, is awesome. Cause it does literally.

And even if it isn't, I mean, obviously I'm into natural soap and we make beautiful soap, but even if you use your, just your, whatever, sunlight, dish soap, it will wash, the virus off your hands and that's important. , it doesn't always need to be hardcore hand sanitizer, but that's important too.

So we want to keep things like hands clean. We don't want to be touching, you know, our eyes out in public, but at the same time, it's like our approach to our bodies in our homes has been to clean with chemicals because. The cleaning is stripping away.  , the thing like it's messing with our microbiomes and then kind of the home microbiome.

Cause you don't want to just clean away viruses to replace with the inhalation of a chemical.

Kevin: [00:24:55] Yeah, that's a good point.  And you know, certainly we could go down a whole nother rabbit hole in the environmental toxins that are in our home with, especially with cleaning products and laundry products, et cetera.

Nadine: [00:25:05] , there's not a lot. We have control over on one level, like sort of outside our home. So that's where I feel like, you know what we're putting on our bodies and how we're cleaning our homes is like, at least we do have control over that and ,  cleaning your home with like baking soda, hydrogen peroxide, and like, , a bottle of blood orange or something.

I mean, you can go so far. Or, and like a nice eco bottle of like cleaning. So that, I mean, that can do your whole house. I that's, as we scrub our toilets with baking soda, we washed our, our bathtub with little hydrogen peroxide and baking soda,  and the flora mop waters, just like add a touch of soap with some lemon grass or peppermint.

It's really good. So that's really easy. And then also, you know, I make a lot of beautiful skincare products, but truly, and I talk about, I have recipes in my book. And if you just got like, , an aloeVera plant,  a bottle of organic hobo oil or olive oil and  like some apple cider vinegar and baking soda, you could go so far with your.

Oral care and taking care of your skin. Like, , those bottles would last you a year and you really could take care of your skin  and much more effectively than just getting stuff at the drug store or, or even your like $100 eye cream. Like you're seriously.

If you use all the oil on your eyes for the rest of your life, like beautiful, you know, organic olive oil, you're way better off than like the Lemaire for a thousand dollars.

Kevin: [00:26:34] Yeah. And so let's talk about that a little bit, right. So I think, and we had alluded to this earlier that there's some very savvy marketers, there's a billion dollar advertisement industry in care and in home care,

Nadine: [00:26:47] right.

Since the forties and finding new parts of our body that we can feel insecure and ashamed about. So then the product is the solution.

Kevin: [00:26:56] The product is the solution, right? So. When, when somebody like just my wife who doesn't have a PhD in chemistry, she goes to the department store or wherever she's buying her cosmetics.

She picks them up. She looks at the back of that. What are, what is she looking for? What are the worst offenders or should you not be there at all? I mean, you had alluded to, you know, you could go a long way with a little bit of essential oils, some baking soda, some.  maybe some olive oil. What are some of the worst offenders that are common in our beauty care products?

Well,

Nadine: [00:27:30] you know, I kind of, I'm not hip to all those words anymore because I just don't really know.

Kevin: [00:27:35] But like, you know, there's

Nadine: [00:27:36] really long, there's 50 ways to say petroleum, you know that like you wouldn't even recognize it as petroleum-based. I mean, there's the sodium lauryl sulfate, which are the surfactant family, but there's about.

You know, 50 ways in different sodium, Laura, Laura, and sorta immoral. So there's like a whole, it's a whole thing. And I don't, you know, I just don't care. It's like, I just drag those to the delete bin in my brain. Those words do not float around in my head. So when you're looking at the back, I mean, really, I mean, the thing is Latin names are also sounding scientific, but.

Hopefully, and then hopefully you've got the real plant name beside it. So it should be like sandalwood and Santa alum album too. You're seeing that Latin name, which for some, that can seem a bit scientific, but it should all be recognizable words.

Kevin: [00:28:26] Period, very similar to our food, right? When we look at our food, it should be food should be in the ingredients and not other things.

And if you have to Google it, it's, it probably shouldn't be in your food. And so we should have as the same that we're avoiding this highly processed or now ultra processed foods, it's probably a good general practice to avoid this ultra processed kind of beauty care industry. That's, that's grown up

Nadine: [00:28:50] around us and really to most.

Most production. It was really designed to just meet a bottom line and it's so much in the marketing and the pizazz and not delivering in the product. And I'm just like, I don't know if I'm going to have a bottle of something there better be something in there.

Kevin: [00:29:10] Yeah. Okay. Well, let's we alluded to scent a couple of times I wanted to talk specifically about armpits in our culture.

For whatever reason, armpits are gross, you certainly don't want smelly armpits. Right. And that's a place where we need to clean and only do we need to clean it, but then we need to go and put something on there. Men and women, where you got to put something on there to stop us from sweating. Cause we don't want to sweat.

Right. And to mask, any odor that's there. So. Really, I have a couple of questions. One, I suspect that humans being mammals probably communicate a lot of information by smell. And so we're clearly short-circuiting that when we're just masking our body head to toe with, with different sense, especially these chemical sense.

But , can you talk a little bit about the taboo of  human scent? And then let's kind of talk about. I want to move this into your poetic pits line, which I'm kind of passionate about myself and, you know, using a product that compliments your body smell as opposed to masking it. But talk a little bit about that.

Why are we as Westerners so horrified or at least in north America of our body's natural scent?

Nadine: [00:30:18] Well, I think part of it, I mean, obviously, , it can be unpleasant and, but part of it also is a lot of marketing, but I love. I love  there's a Walt Whitman line from one of his poems. That's says the scent of these armpits is an aroma finer than prayer.

And that's, you know, that's bringing the dialogue into new space, but yeah, it's such a key area. And I think it's important that we unmask some of our aroma, so to speak from  The military industrial complex, which is being so silly if we've got petroleum and aluminum in our pits, and it's not so good and fake smells because this area is key.

And, and why is because it's like, they're kind of like little flowers for us because they also emit pheromones like flowers do. And so pheromones, , the root word literally means to like transfer of excitement. And these pheromones that get excreted from our armpits, you know, broadcast information about us.

, but it's also like the pheromones excrete, like it's  and, and draws Jerome. And it was like when I realized that, and I knew, because I knew that sandalwood had a Fido androsterone and cause I'd still, I was about 22 three, then I was still trying to perfect. The. The pit thing, because, , just mixing essential oils and water and spraying on your pet, didn't always have alasting effect. , and it also super helps to not to wear like natural ingredients for your top. Like, so cotton, cause as soon as you add a synthetic fiber in there, like a Polly, your pits will smell because there's a breathability that isn't happening. So even if you, like, if you have  Smelly feet, you got to wear wool or cotton or alpaca.

You got to have a hundred percent natural fiber or a Merino wool and underwear. You know, Yoni's rebel at synthetic polyester underwear. We need that area to breathe, especially since, , We are closed all the time. So we need some breathable fabrics. , you know, I get that there's situations where you want to wear something else.

That's cool. But like on your daily level, , especially if you're a guy that's always wearing a white t-shirt, you know, just make it a hundred percent cotton. , so that's going to be key, but then so, oh my God did sandal, whatever works so elegant. Eloquently for the pits and so then that became the basis of the poetic pit line, which is really mainly sandalwood with these other essences.

So the sandalwood really works effectively. And then what we found over the years is that people become practically like pied Pipers. And whether they've been in a hot yoga or sweating all day, Or, , haven't showered even a couple of days and they're still working with their poetic pits as you get about two or three days of like, smelling really great until your next bath or shower.

I mean, of course, if you're showering every day, then you reapply. But  these days not everybody's showering every day and that's okay too.  But it really, what it does is it combines with your pheromones. So the scent coming off is, is like, it's the poetic pit. Plus you. And it's just been so revolutionary and I feel like it really, it does create a beautiful seamlessness with.

With our pheromones, you know, with that scent expression that we all actually naturally have. And I think it's key to, , relationships and understanding people. And I feel like there's a little bit in the modern world, that's masking that information and that  interchange with people and even things like the birth control pill actually studies show it's it throws the pheromones off and people aren't necessarily picking the right mates.

Kevin: [00:34:11] Yeah, I think I've heard some studies there with    specific, with scent and, , birth control and other things. And it's, it's very interesting how much information we get from scent, but I think that most of us think that when we think of scent of another human, we're thinking of a perfume smell.

And now for those of us who, if you haven't caught on poetic pits is, is needings line or living libations line of underarm. I. Call it deodorant. Cause it's not, I, if I'm not mistaken, is there, for example, I use the Maverick and the, how do you say

the dude that I use pretty commonly.  But I think there's, is there anything in there besides essential oils? Is there a carrier oil

Nadine: [00:34:49] or.  And that's the magic of it. Sandalwood has this really awesome viscosity. That is so perfect for that area. Now it's very concentrated. So you need a tiny, like one stroke.

Does each pit  generally speaking there once in a while, there'll be somebody that's sensitive to that because it also was shaving. It can be a sensitive area, but we also have our underarm charms, which are cream deodorants, and they're a little milder. And so that's, yeah, that's an awesome option too.

And they're very effective as well.

Kevin: [00:35:23] So, yeah, that's and I just wanted to bring up the armpit because that just seemed like a good place for us to start. We have this all in common that we're all trying to, to mask this area. , but you've got a different, a completely different outlook on that. A way to keep that a healthy area.

And to work with your body's natural pheromones that you said, right. As opposed to trying let's instead of going to war against the smell, it's fun way to compliment it. And I'll just add that. Yeah. Sorry. I just add real quick that with those poetic pits, I'll do, I'll do a quick swipe on each pit. I'll get a little dab behind each ear and right, right on my chest.

And I get. All these crazy compliments about, wow, what are you wearing?  , cause it's,  it's a wonderful smell. And like you said, just a tiny bit goes a long way,

Nadine: [00:36:08] truly like way more valuable. I mean like, and concentrated them, like, , all the perfumes on the market, like you really are buying just this.

Really genuine and concentrated beautiful thing. And yeah, you can even put in your hair hair really holds smell for a long time as well. Cause it doesn't get absorbed into the skin. And I guess this is what you were saying, how we're working with the aromas is just, I guess, sort of also an underlying philosophy of mine.

And when I'm understanding the body or oral care  is my general. Thesis or theme is to like step out of the way, really understand what are the natural body systems that are designed, like what was designed before we even put our minds on the situation to take care of that system. And like, usually our modern skin care solutions are actually getting in the way of those body processes.

So we want to allow the body to function, which makes life easier. And then hopefully what we're doing in our, our body care and in our self care is, , moving with that, working with that, boosting those systems, not inhibiting it, not making more work for it, you know, not putting it into an immune response.

Kevin: [00:37:22] Yeah. I mean, it's, it's honoring and loving your body, right. As opposed to going to war against your body. That being said too. I mean, I think we didn't know.

Nadine: [00:37:31] I don't think we knew we were going to war with our body, you know, so yeah. So it's a new way, but we still, like, we've all kind of got to undo the past marketing and commercialization of how we were supposed to care for our bodies.

Kevin: [00:37:46] Yeah, well said, well said, and keeping on the armpit theme for just a minute longer  you know, it's been, you see a lot of quote, unquote, natural armpit products for men and women out there. And that's because it's been in the news a little bit, that it turns out. Deodorants bad for you has some health consequences, and I believe it's even correlated or linked to breast cancer.

Is

Nadine: [00:38:07] that right? Well, it can be, , correlation. Isn't always causation. However, with the deodorants, you know, you've got maybe 40, 50 years of micro aluminum. That's going to build up. It's not leaving the body. Right. And, , I have studied breast health a lot. I have a chapter on breast health and it does seem that when disease breast tissue is studied, that 99% of that tissue does have parabens in it.

And parabins are an interesting, interesting thing to look at  through understanding that if they're using in cosmetics is only ever at a, a 0.1%, not much as needed. And so it's very micro. But you can see. So in that cause sometimes things well, and that can even be in an certified organic skincare product because, you know, 20% of those ingredients don't have to be certified organic.

So we can just see how this, this one ingredient that's used in a very infant decimal amount shows up in the body. And so that's why I just feel like every drop matters, every ingredient matters.

Kevin: [00:39:13] Every ingredient matters. Yeah, I like that a lot. And that goes back to flipping your beauty products over, looking at the back.

And if you want to have some fun break out Google, some of the things don't seem so horrible. Some of them seem. Pretty

Nadine: [00:39:27] bad. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes once a while there could be a Latin name or something that sure.

Kevin: [00:39:32] And you're like, oh, okay, well that sounds pretty good. Yeah. But there's a long list of other things.

Typically

Nadine: [00:39:38] here it's SWAT like 20, 21. And it's not like you just like. Oh, wow. Wow. Like there now there's nothing. I can't have any fun with me, but here I'm like, no, there's a whole beautiful banquet awaiting so many options. She so many fun ways to care for your body. So it can really be, , a celebration.

It doesn't have to be an any sense, like denying yourself the beauty of the planet.

Kevin: [00:40:02] That's that's an excellent point. So I think for guys listening, we're probably less impressed with that statement. We're like, eh, well, you know, I get a little shave cream and get a little nugget, my poetic pits and  use maybe this    best skin ever as opposed to soap?

I'm good, right? I'm done. I don't even need shampoo. I'll just use the same thing I'm using for, but for women now we're talking about. So I think PR I suspect a lot of women listening to this, they use commercial products and they probably have a whole bathroom full and they've invested some money into that.

And if we're saying, take all that away or at least be aware of it and reduce it, you put you're saying is you're not really giving anything up. You're just moving into this whole beautiful other realm with lots of possibility, including beauty possibilities, added

Nadine: [00:40:49] health benefits, right. cause I feel like too, there's been so many promises, like right.

If I just think even of being a teenager, reading Vogue magazine, , you think every little bottle is going to be magical because it's like strong, it's strong marketing, you know, but I think, and even though I do make skincare, I think we also have to know that it's really, you know, beauty.

Isn't something that's applied. and it's not necessarily a bottle of anything is going to be what restores you. So I also like to just talk about, you know, it's about our connection and engaging with the elements that are around us. Cause I feel like that's actually, what's the true rejuvenation.

And of course the ingredients that I use in a skincare are from the elements of the earth. But what we can also do is like, , get fresh air, engage with the wind and the air and  sunshine and pure water, getting out, walk, seeing the sunrise, checking out the moon. That's the stuff that we also want to bring into our beauty practices.

So to speak into our self-care.

Kevin: [00:42:05] Okay, so we can glow with inner beauty. When we get our inner health and outer care working in synchronicity. And speaking of the importance of being outdoors. I wanted to ask Nadine about sun exposure.

Surely we need to avoid the sun in order to maintain healthy, youthful looking skin.  But I live in coastal, North Carolina. And every summer I watched well-meaning parents slather their kids and themselves up with sunscreen at the beach. And that doesn't seem particularly healthy either.

 

Nadine: [00:42:36] I'm really passionate about sun care. And  you know, as a teen, I had probably a similar experience with everybody, you know, just that like sunscreens and like overburdening and not really getting it and like, don't do it yet feeling like I just, whenever I felt less sun, I was like, it feels right.

But , then, , Your mom being like, you can't get burned. So anyway. Yeah, but in my twenties, I was like really set to figure it out because I just feel like the truth is for many people, it does feel good. And it really is kind of responsible for all life on the planet. And we do have a few form of a photosynthesis system just like chlorophyll is made when sun interacts with plants and trees.

When our skin interacts with sunshine and Sunbeams, there's so many  catalytic conversions that happen, it's a real, it's a real meeting of life that Sunbeam on the skin. And when we really look at the skin and the design of the body, cause that's what I like to do. First. We see that our skin.

Was designed to be exposed to sunshine. We have thousands of vitamin D receptors all throughout our body, on our skin inside. And they, those vitamin D receptors BDRs for short need to be brimming with sunshine to make a whole bunch of body systems happen. So when we get the sun on our skin, we get a different cause you think, well, maybe we can just take vitamin D supplements and.

You know, forget about it, but it's actually a different type of  it's a water-soluble type of vitamin D that's created, it creates a very healthy form of cholesterol. Sulfate anti-microbial peptides are created like LL 37 that helps with inflammation and cytokine storms. We also have the production of nitrous oxide, which is so key.

, and it's like this liquid sunshine, it's a liquid it's, it's called vitamin D, but it's a hormonal precursor. So it actually is contributing to a juicy interior, so to speak. And in previous, , centuries up until about the 1940s sun was seen as essential, you know, obviously revered and, and.

In cultures past, like the original Olympians were required to exercise outside because they knew that the sun on skin created muscle tone. So that's one of my favorite ways to work out is lying in the sun. And then we have  you know, the 1902 Nobel prize, one for Helio therapy, understanding led light healing, various  imbalances, and the 1920s, Dr.

Augusta,  made a very famous clinics in liaison, Switzerland, where. Many thousands of people would go and heal things. So children with rickets or tuberculosis would go for a months and it was like hospital all built on suntanning. So all the beds were outside and it was, it's pretty amazing. And you can see pictures on Google.

I it's great to look at that. And even in the 1940s, you've got a Mademoiselle Coco Chanel saying that no outfit is complete without a tan so that's a very important part of our history and I'm just joking. So anyway, there was this whole other reverence for the sun and the understanding that it was part of our natural hygiene, but now we have science that can help us even understand more.

So now we can see why sunlight is so important. Why they, why it helped Epstein BARR viruses like a hundred years ago. Now we have the science to understand why. And what we know is when those vitamin D receptors aren't brimming with vitamin D, then these sticky bacterial linens can come in and basically like just flip the switch on the immune system.

And they fill up those vitamin D receptors and that's, , the beginning of various imbalances. We now also have over 3000 studies that show that ample vitamin D in the body prevents many diseases, including slashing, brisk breast cancer risk by 50%. Which I think that's more than giving up alcohol would do we know that juvenile diabetes, the main causes, so that is deficient D and pregnant mothers.

So it's very connected to health. But then we've also been messaged that we're going to shrivel up like raisins and, have age liver spots everywhere. , so now we got to understand that part.    in the nineties and stuff, again, kind of like where we understand the microbiome.

I think we can understand that many chemicals in sunscreen would be endocrine disruptors. And, , besides, you know, if you look at the ingredients like oxybenzone, there's going to be in, , there could be in fertility issues, liver issues, and the Oxy benzene is one of the main active ingredients in sunscreen around the world.

It's been banned some places like Europe, but Oxy benzine is non carcinogenic. Until it's exposed to sunlight. It is the main active ingredient. Yeah. Okay. So there's that whole stuff of the chemicals. But the main thing that I think is  to really understand it is when we're using sunscreen, we're separating the UVA from the UVB Ray.

So the UVB is the giver of vitamin D. So now we're denying the vitamin D. And when UVA is without us ultraviolet partner UVB, then we're just getting sun damage rate because UVA on its own is, you know, what's going to cause, cause it's not balanced. It's like you're not getting the whole spectrum. So sunscreen divides the spectrum.

And that's when some of the stuff   , is an issue. The other issue is what are we bringing to this  you know, to the altar of the sunshine. I think of, , you're laying your body on this altar of sunshine and, you know, are you hydrating with Coca-Cola and Mazola oil in your diet? You know, that's so the polyunsaturated, the commercial synthesize polyunsaturated, fatty acids, those are the, one of the biggest causes of melasma and hyperpigmentation in skin.

Not the sun, right? Yeah. And so what we do is we want to have a new relationship with the sun, you know, how, so, how are we going to do this? And I've got to say, since I've really, you know, gone into  getting my melanin levels up every year, tanning, in other words, really seeing that, that sun damage stuff that I got more from the teens

when I was burning or not sunning properly, I don't have any, you know, nothing is getting  sun damaged or wrinkled from being more in the sun is what I got to say. You know really focusing on really being amply and having ample vitamin D levels for the past 10 years.  So, but if you are concerned about your face, you could always just wear a hat, but the idea is really getting, you know, as much skin as you can in the sun.

And starting slowly but surely and starting in the spring. So in my, I live in Canada and Ontario, so we have got a Hardy winter, but vitamin D starts coming back in those sun beams mid February. So, , at first I'll just open the windows and then slowly make my way outside, but I'll get those sun beams and I'll build up my vitamin D , and then by the summer, I don't need.

You know, you're just so protected from the sun because you've built up that base layer layer and then tanning into the fall. And then you've got the vitamin D taking you through winter. And I found that my skin has actually just become even more, better conditioned through the sun exposure. It's really neat.

Kevin: [00:50:36] Yeah, there's a, there's a lot in there. Obviously our diet plays a big role in our, in our skin.

Nadine: [00:50:42] And also there's, , foods that create to an internal sunscreen. And there's yeah, there's scientific papers on that. Like all the high pigmented ones, like the lycopene and all that. And then also we can use oils on our skin that harmonize our skin with the sun's rays.

And it's not a sunblock. And it's not a sunscreen, but it will extend your time. It depends on your, you know, are you Mediterranean or Irish? Obviously it's going to make a difference, but we have this and we call it a tanning oil and it's so rich and it's lovely pigmented. And it's kind of like a, you can't, we can't say an SPF because that's literally just for synthetic ingredients.

You have to it's like SPF is only for synthetic realm, but , you know, you can kind of get a feeling like a coconut oil, even whole bar, all of oil. They're going to kind of give you about a six, you know, so they kind of, , can, can extend your time, but it's not going to prevent you from burning, but then you have your time in the sun and then if you're out longer, you know, wear a shirt, wear a hat, get your son in, and then we do, and then there, you can use zinc.

And we make our, everybody loves the sunshine oil, and then we make a version with zinc. Now, zinc though is just block and how that's useful is it literally bounces the rays off of you. So it deflects the rays and then you're not absorbing any of it. So we don't really have anything in between. It's sort of either Golding tanning or you're blocking.

, but really currently that whole in-between realm is pretty. Chemically.

Kevin: [00:52:13] Certainly certainly is. Yeah. And that's another multimillion dollar industry, right? The whole sunblock industry. And so personally I do a lot of surfing fishing, a lot of times outdoor, and I've been very, and I'm very interested in, I go to the dermatologist religiously every year and she keeps telling me, keep doing what you're doing.

And I think to myself, well, I'm getting a lot of sun exposure. So if you probably knew that you'd probably yell at me, but. My first line of defense, like you said, is clothing. So if I'm fishing all day, I have these very lightweight, breathable clothing I can put on a hat,

Nadine: [00:52:48] you

Kevin: [00:52:48] know? Well, I used it. I use the, everyone loves sunshine, was zinc on my face.

That's really the only product I ever put on me. , and you know, if I'm at the beach, I'm in the water a lot, worry about it as much, but.

Nadine: [00:53:01] Of course, which can be a thing. And also it depends where you are in the world, right? Like  if I go to Hawaii in February, but haven't had sunshine since November, I've got, again, work a bit slowly and unfortunately too, where sometimes we only have a week to get away.

And so, , then we're blasting in the sun, but we definitely don't want to get burnt. But as I really go into explaining in the book, our body can deal. Our DNA can deal with a burn a lot better than it can with. Dealing with eight hours of those chemicals on our body. And of course there are, , you know, serious cancers and stuff around.

Discussion of the sun, like, , melanoma and that kind of stuff. But I go into it in the book and using medical journals and science. We unpack that and show that, , it really seems that the more sun exposure you have, the closer you live to the equation, , the more quote unquote, recreational sun exposure, you had the last chance you would get Mel melanoma.

So there's a lot to undo. And, , I really appreciate the work of Dr. Ackerman, who was the founding father of dermatome pathology, which is like a little more serious than dermatology, like in the disease realm. And he was so all about the tan very well. Dermatologist

Kevin: [00:54:16] I'll have to check him out. I love that.

Yeah, he's a great,

Nadine: [00:54:19] great writer. His book is hard to find, , I was just published about 10 years ago, but it's, it's such a good. It's if you're into the sun, it's like a little Mecca.

Kevin: [00:54:31] I love it. I love it. All right. Well, Nadine I've kept you here for some time. I know we're coming up against our time here and.

Just tell us what's next for you? Where, where are you going from here? I know you've, you've done a lot. You've accomplished a lot. It sounds like you're very passionate about what you're doing. What's on the horizon for you.

Nadine: [00:54:50] So many things. It's sort of hard to pick one, but there's always beautiful products on the way.

I'm always exploring things about health. Actually. I have an interview coming out. I don't normally interview people, but there's a really beautiful, , substance. That's a, I that we've, that this, that a friend of mine has made available and wow, it's so exciting. It works on a tough, a G  just for starters and the side effects are beautiful hair, glowing skin, hard like diamond nails, long eyelashes.

It's it's amazing. And it's just a food nutrient. That's concentrated.

Kevin: [00:55:32] Okay. And well, that's certainly, I like everything I'm hearing there. And that sounds exciting. So if people want to learn more about you and find out more about your products, et cetera, your books, where would you like to send these people to connect with you?

Well, our home

Nadine: [00:55:47] base is living libations.com and you can find everything there and other interviews. We also do free consults that we do for half an hour. You can email us. Any question you want, and hopefully we can help you.  We take oral care questions, skincare questions, there's other interviews and resources there.

And then the books are available anywhere books are sold, and they're also both available on audible.

Kevin: [00:56:08] Great. And I can drop all that into the show notes. I know you have a ton of YouTube videos out there as well that people can.  And then

Nadine: [00:56:15] on Instagram you can connect at Nadine Artimus official or living libations official.

Kevin: [00:56:20] Great. Yeah. And I'll, I'll make sure I get all that into the show notes. Well, Nadine, I want to thank you so much for coming on the show today and sharing all of your beauty and your wisdom and your knowledge with us.  I think that  you're doing great stuff in the world, and I wish you all the best in all your future endeavors.

Thank you so

Nadine: [00:56:37] much, Kevin.

Kevin: [00:56:50] Okay. So that's our show for today, folks. I hope you enjoyed our episode. But before you go, I have a challenge for you. Go into your bathroom and take a look at the ingredient list on a couple of your favorite skincare products. You'll need your phone or computer to Google. Most of these ingredients.

And just be aware of the things that you were putting on your body and ask yourself if these ingredients are serving your longterm health and wellness goals. Next choose one product to replace with a natural product. You certainly can't go wrong with any of the products from Nadine's company, living libations.

But the idea here is to find a product that has ingredients that you understand, and that are actually healthy for you. You can find all of the show notes as well as links to Nadine and living libations on my website@wwwdotsilver-edge.com. Forward slash episode 56. If you enjoyed this show, please consider giving us a review on whatever platform you're listening on. And please share this episode with a friend.

Until next time. Stay strong.